Hello Friends,
One of my beginner friends asked me a question that I had no answer to and I was dumb struck as to why i hadn’t had the same question all this time. Salsa is said to be a quick-quick-slow dance. But how is it quick-quick-slow when we step or change weight on every beat. For eg. we step(beat 1)-change weight(beat 2)-replace step(beat 3)-hold(beat 4). so where does the quick-quick-slow come in. it should be quick-quick-quick-hold. I practise to some pure clave tunes in which the only instrument playing is the clave. on the 2 side the clave strikes on the 2nd and 3rd beats. I find it very difficult to complete the 3rd step on the 2nd slap of the clave even if I am on time for the 1st slap of the clave. Because the 3rd step is supposed to be slow and the 2nd slap of the clave happens very fast after the 1st. Is my dancing fundamentals or knowledge of clave wrong in some way?
Updates from December, 2008
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salilsurendran
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jenny
Do you guys dance Rueda de Casino much in CA? I recently found a rueda video on facebook and they do this killer move, I am trying to find out what the name of it is…
well this might be a little bit of work to go check out, seeing as how this is not a youtube video, but if you go to my facebook page http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/profile.php?id=1347660266&ref=profile
and the move happens at 2:07I know I know, lots of complications, but honestly, this move rocks big time and If you do rueda it will be totally worth it to see what I am talking about. Even if you don’t do rueda and you want to see a sick move, well let me know.
Anyway if anyone out there in the world knows the name of this rueda move – please!! I would love to know it.
Also, we just released our SalsaTALK podcast totally on rueda if you are interested check it out.. http://blog.salsa-challenge.com
hooknc
Hi Jenny,
Do you have a link outside of facebook?
Anthony Persaud
You can share individual videos with the public by providing the URL that facebook gives you below the video.
Jenny
Thanks for the info about the facebook videos, I guess I need to look a little closer, because I can’t quite find a url below the video…my bad.
I did find the name of the move though! “Blanco” and these guys from London made it up – they say it’s a DJ FADI AND MOR FLEX SPECIAL. It’s an awesome move, and just as soon as I get my smarty pants on, I will figure out how to post it here for you all to check out.
No really, I will!
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Don Vaillancourt
Eh, was just thinking. Where are the t-shirts? I’d get one or two through CafePress or something.
Anthony Persaud
Still working on them. Trying to work on new videos first.
gnss
Sorry.. I’m not very good informated – what t-shirts please? I would love to know more about it
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Dano
Does anyone know the name of the song in this clip between 2:54 and 3:14 in this video (I think its during the ladies duet)?
Anthony Persaud
hmm.. In the ladie’s dance duet, it seems to be Celia Cruz trying to sing, but from the sound of it – it was a remix.
Dano
ya, I know its a remix, but I was trying to figure out from what song. I’m not sure that its Celia Cruz, maybe a guy. The only thing I’ve found out so far is that it may be from a song (unknown) on a compilation cd called something like Que Viva La Salsa, but I haven’t been able to identify or confirm it yet.
D
Could someone tell me all of the names of the songs in the video…please!
Anthony Persaud
@D: umm.. That is what we are trying to figure out…
IncaPie
Hi Dano,
The vocal part in the video from 2:54-3:14 is from a song called “Manigua” originally by Menique, which can be found on (as you nearly pointed out) an album called Que Viva La Salsa Dura – Originals and Remixes. It is available on iTunes. I am not 100% sure that the version in the video is either of the versions on said album; it could be yet another remix.
I hope that helps.
Sigue bailando!
Dano
Ah, thank you. I think I previewed that album on Amazon, but I don’t recall hearing that part of the song there… but now I hear it on itunes. Much appreciated.
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DanAshley
Regarding the HD Video Podcast, 180 Cross Body Lead with Turn, 12/22/2008:
I thought you should know how much difficulty I’ve had seeing this video podcast.
I have high speed DSL and trying to view this as a streaming video was impossible. It kept stopping and stuttering every 5 seconds.
So I downloaded the file.
Downloading places the file right into iTunes. After downloading, I tried to play it in iTunes. It was almost as bad as streaming it. I had some other programs open, so I closed them and went back into iTunes. It was a little better, but kept stopping and stuttering every 10 – 15 seconds.
So I explored my hard disk and found the file in the iTunes library. I made a copy and pasted it onto my desktop, then opened the file with Quicktime. Finally I could view the video smoothly, without stopping and starting.
Of course, all that dragging and dropping is very inconvenient. I think most viewers would give up.
I suggest you not record in HD, and stick to a more lightweight, svelt and streamlined format. If you wish to continue with HD, I request that you provide two formats for download into iTunes. HD and regular (low D?)
By the way, the video is beautifully produced, with excellent control of the sound levels, great lighting, and a well rehearsed and performed instructional video. You are to be congratulated!
Thanks!
Anthony Persaud
Anyone else having similar issues? I’ll look into it. A lower quality version of the video for viewing is availabe on YouTube. You can download YouTube videos for free and play the FLV files on your computer in the meantime. Thanks.
Ian_in_Sussex
I found no problem with viewing it either on or offline. However I use Real Player to download the video and “Prism Video Converter” to change the file format to allow me to view it on a mobile phone. However the HD files are often too big to view in mp4 format on my phone so I am forced to use other formats.
Anthony, I would also like to congratulate you on an excellent instructional video – as are all the others on the site. The only improvement could be a text file listing the moves you do in each sequence which might help with memorising them. Whilst I realise the sort of “shorthand” used is very individual but I’m sure whatever you could do would help.
Finally Anthony, where did you get the t-shirt you wear on the video from and is there a UK stockist?Happy New Year.
Gerrit Lemmens
@Anthony Persaud: No problems at all
Anthony Persaud
I posted smaller versions of the files for the old videos. I’ve decided to set it up this way: YouTube for lower quality viewing, Our video page, for High Quality viewing (newer videos) and our Feed will have Medium Quality videos for download. I may split up the feed into ‘High Def’ and ‘iPhone/iPod’ format in the future once we get more subscribers (and more donations to pay for extra bandwidth).
The reason for high quality videos is that a lot of people hook up their computers, XBoxes, Apple TVs to their TVs to do party lessons with our videos. I’d like to make sure they can see the details when being played on a large TV.
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newinnc
hi, im just curious what the % of freestyle dance vs routines would be happening at a dance club or anywhere salsa dancing is going on. Would on1 or on2 be more likely to be a routine or a freestyle dancing? what about other styles, which are more conducive to freestytle? id guess some styles would be about impossible to do improvisation or would require expertise from both partners to freely improvise and be fun and fluid. main question though is what % would you see at any givin club doing freestyle vs. routines. thanks! nice site here.
Anthony Persaud
Answer 1: You have to define freestyle dance and routines specifically. I’ll assume routines means having a dance with a partner on the dance floor where both know exactly what move is coming up next (versus only the lead knowing). This is very common in Los Angeles area On1. However, in most other parts of the world, most of it is freestyle dance where the lead determines the patterns, and both follow and lead will decide independently relative to the music what shines to do.
Answer 2: If you mean freestyle dance as in shines and ‘routines’ as partnerwork. On average I would say that On1 dancers may do +90% partnerwork and -10% footwork as beginners/int – just because free styling footwork is a lot more improvisation to the music that is playing than knowing a set pattern. Also, knowing when to break to do footwork and when to do partnering requires knowledge of the musical sections of salsa music.
As for On2 dancers, I would say it is even 50/50% for shines/partnerwork – since most songs have good instrumentation (Descarga) sections to do footwork. (Warning, being biased in the next few sentences): Also, since dancing on2 fits much better with the music and the individual instruments – it makes it much more enjoyable to freestyle/shine when dancing on2.
If this didn’t answer you question, let me know, since I might have misunderstood freestyle vs routine.
newinnc
yes good enlightening answer, thanks.
Brian – asheville nc
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salilsurendran
Hello Friends,
One of the problems I have is that I would like to dance everyday but good salsa socials doesn’t occur everyday. So I practise solo. Do members of this forum practise that way? And what is good for solo practise, do you just do the basics again and again or also complex turns? One of my friends told me that he never practised solo because it will mess up your moves since you are not thinking about leading. Which sites do you go to on the internet to find out the moves to practise? And do you guys practise the basics again and again. My teacher told me to keep practising basic steps as much as possible.newinnc
have you looked for a partner who would practice with you offdays?
Anthony Persaud
I definitely practice on my own (solo). Depending on what level you are on in salsa dancing determines the exercises. For beginners, I recommend working on the basics steps over and over again. I was reading Outliers the other day and it stated that for one to Master a skill/task – people have to repeat it over 10,000 times. Not to discourage you, but to let you know that you can always improve the basic step. Try dancing the basic step while doing something else with your upper body. I used to practice the basic step with my favorite songs, while folding laundry and moving around the dorm (I was in college).
For intermediate, I recommend get a full length mirror and work on footwork and body isolations. There is usually a rule that states that if you can’t do footwork correctly in front of yourself (mirror), then you’ll have a harder time doing it in front of your partner.
For advanced dancers, you can always use the “ghost” partner to help you work on your mental speed. This exercise is similar to above where you imagine you are dancing with a ‘ghost’ partner, but only plan the next move 4 counts before the current move you are doing ends. Doing this will help speed your thinking when dancing and also improves correcting from errors in real partnerwork dance.
Salil
@newinnc: Yes I am trying to find a partner.
Salil
@Anthony Persaud: thanks a lot. that was really good advice.
Marco
@Anthony P. (Does anyone ever call you Tony?)
Off of your comment above about Intermediates practicing footwork and body isolations. Does this just mean shine work, or is there something else I’m missing. A YTube link would work fine if you know of one.
donv69
man, every time I want to reply Anthony’s already beaten me to it and I always agree with his comments.
One of the things that I tried to practise a lot on my own is being able to follow music. Once you can follow music, nothing can stop you.
About 2 months ago a girl caught me lipping my steps; so I stopped doing that real fast. But I have noticed that I don’t count my steps that anymore except some of the more complex moves.
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dorm_moth
hi
a little question, (after reading and posting some comments).
how do you pull the lady towards you so she walks backwards. after say a break or like in this video @ 0:14 without having her strangulated??btw i can keep watching that video over and over again… it’s an amazing connection those two have right there…also my favorite parts 1:58->2:08 , 2:13 and 2:18
Marco
Great effin vid. Pretzel practicioner extrordinare.
I like it when the girls start hopping around like at the 2:18 mark. It looks like they are having fun when they do that.
As to the original question of how do you do that. Having a follow like Magna helps but I’m sure that there was some back hand pressure with his left hand. That’s my guess anyways.
Wil
She is one of the best in the world.
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latinaskin
[Salsamentary Son Y Pasos]
Marco
Nicely done!
Your salsamentuaries are always nice to watch.
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damienro0
Can you suggest any fast salsa songs?? I know some songs like Aguanile de Hector Lavoe, cachondea de fruko y sus tesos, quimbara de Celia Cruz…but do you know any other songs??
Anthony Persaud
Do you want a really fast song? Try ‘Mambo in Two Parts’ by Snowboy and The Latin Seciton. It is one of my favorite songs and one of the fastest songs I can dance to. The last 3 minutes are the fastest (it builds up).
If you are more into fast classics, try Mama Guela by Spanish Harlem Orchestra.
Carl
How about “Salsa Caliente” by Tito Puente? It’s hard to keep up with it with just the basic step.
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Ian_in_Sussex
Can anyone suggest a source of slower music to enable me to practice routines?
greeneggs
With good google searches, you can find lists of salsa music with bpm (beats per minute). 200 bpm is fast, 130 bpm is very slow. You can usually buy the individual songs as mp3s either on iTunes or Amazon. Here are two examples:
http://www.salsa-merengue.co.uk/VidTutor/salsaone/learning_tracks_salsa.html
http://www.ballroomdancers.com/music/search_style.asp?Dance=Salsa
On my Mac, I use Metronome (http://members.ozemail.com.au/~ronfleckner/metronome/) to get the bpm for songs that I already have. Then I can practice with slow songs and speed up gradually.
tommrod
that’s pretty cool greeneggs i didn’t know all that. i thought the bpm rating was referred only to the bytes per minute transfer rate.
anyway i usually go by ear.i’ve found several songs that i like a lot that are really slow, like chin chon chow, trucutu, estamos chao…donv69
If you just want to practise your steps don’t forget that you can use any kind of music. As long as it’s 4 beats per bar your good.
I was practising my steps to Metallica at one time, the old good stuff, not the recent crappy stuff.
Anthony Persaud
Doing a routine to a different timing will help solidify the moves to the timing a lot better. You can always try doing it to cha-cha music (just take out the cha-cha step and do regular salsa). There is another general rule of thumb that says : if you can’t dance it properly to slow music, you aren’t dancing it correctly to faster ones.
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wmdzign
The dreaded On1 vs. On 2….sounds like a video podcast to me. Anthony, I think it would great to show the differences between the two styles with the same song, if possible.
Anthony Persaud
It seems like a touchy subject whenever we talk about it. There were a few articles written and an audio podcast (music) which I talk about On1 vs On2 and they were both received with much “discussion” in the old forums.
It is really hard trying to communicate through words (regardless of medium) on how On2 feels different from On1. It’s kind of like explaining what the color red and blue is to a color blind person. (Red = On2 vs Blue = On1). It’s one of those things that needs to be experienced with several tries until you get that ‘a-ha’ moment which realize the difference. It is very similar to when a dancer becomes able to find the beat in salsa music for the first time.
I wonder if getting other instructors to provide their explanation would help since it would provide multiple perspectives. Might be a good interview podcast.
Wil
After I made that post I went onto youtube and did a search for On1 vs. On2…I found some interesting
videos…and they were quite helpful check them outThis first one shows a dance team competing against each other one group dancing On1 and the second group dancing On2. I can definitely can see how On2 seems to be more in tune with the music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhPuqrODOHY
This other video I found has an instructor demonstrating the differences between the styles. I actually think he takes it way too in depth which in turn causes confusion…hahah..anyway check them out…it’s definitely helpful
tommrod
ha so me trying to dance on 2 had actually been mambo on 2… and the quick quick slow thing i had been repeating it as tah doon dah …. sort of
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latinaskin
As everyone already knows I have been working on a documentary on the San Diego salsa scene. I already posted episode 1, but not finished yet. I had to stop production time due to congress, projects, and finals. After tomorrow I will be able to start on Episode 2. My goal is to be done before Christmas. So what is so special about episode 2? Any guesses? Well, episode 2 will incorporate interviews with David and Jennifer Stein from Majesty in Motion, Iran Castillo from Son y Pasos, Sergio and Gaby from Alma Latina, Laura Mendoza from Salsa Divas, Serena Cuevas from Deseo Dance Co., and hope to interview many more. I’m still waiting to interview Mr. A2S himself as well as his partner Julie Merrill. At any rate I am very excited about Episode 2 and want to see what everyone wants to see. Is there any questions the audience has for these wonderful dancers? You never know, your question may even be included in the documentary….If you guys have any questions, comments, or concerns please tell me
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Amal
What kind of exercises you recommend me to make in order to make me legs move faster, cuz I think I’m a bit slow with the salsa and Cha Cha moves!!
Do think I should do some aerobics or simply jogging will be enough. I also need some exercise for the upper part of my body, cuz I can’t keep my back straight. I’m always leaning forward cuz of the long hours working on the computer… I really appreciate your advice, as an expert I think you would really help
Anthony Persaud
First of all, I think core strength training is the best abs. Being able to have strong abs (core), allows you to isolate your lower body from your upper body as well as bring a higher level of balance and stability. Given better balance and stability, it will allow you to wiggle less (when moving your body) which will allow faster footwork movement. Going to an abs class or doing Yoga is great for this.
In addition, if you just want to focus on forcing your feet to be faster. You can always try playing some DDR:
hooknc
Strong abs are a must. I would recommend doing crunches without weight to keep the muscles slender.
Jump rope. It will really help you with the quickness of your feet.
Daniel Ellis
Pilates is the ultimate workout for core strength. It also helps improve posture, and it does work the legs some too. Yoga does help too, but in different ways.
For quickness, I actually practice dancing with ankle weights…just practice your footwork, or even dance with a partner in them for a while… when you take them off, everything will feel super easy. I sometimes use wrist weights as well, to help with precise arm movements in partnerwork, or even arm styling while solo dancing.
wmdzign
I agree with the guys…strong core…but to get your legs moving one of the best ways I found that works is just simply jumping rope. If you haven’t jumped rope in a while it may take some time but once you start jumping just off your toes it will help great. No jump rope? Do jumping jacks as an alternative.
Julie
Or, if you already run on a treadmill or elliptical trainer, try doing intervals: 4 min jog, 1 minute sprint, 4 minute jog, 1 minute sprint. This is more representative of dancing than just jogging the whole time. I totally agree with the ankle weights too, practicing footwork to fast songs with weights on does miracles!
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wmdzign
Remembering salsa patterns!!!!! Does anyone have suggestions/tips/tricks on remembering patterns… I’ve taking group lessons for about 4 months now…but it’s been very discouraging trying to remembering all the new patterns.Thanks in advance!
Marco
I’ve seen people take cheat sheets and have all the names of the moves they know written down.
You could always download the A2S podcasts and take your ipod with you to the dance.
I know I come back from some dances saying to myself…why the hell didn’t I remember that move!!!
hooknc
Follow Marco’s advice. Write the moves down and then study them.
I write all my moves down on notecards and then use them as flash cards. It helps to visualize the moves.
Wil
great tips!…anymore?…keep them coming
Sammy
I started with note cards, but it became too complicated fast. Note cards are hard to keep organized and time-consuming to create and update.
I now have tiddlywiki set up with most of the moves I know. tiddlywikis are essentially easy-to-update-and-organize electronic index cards. Each index card, when complete, has a brief description of the move, a detailed step-by-step description, and one or more embedded videos (mostly excerpts from addicted2salsa podcasts, some excerpts from youtube) that show that move only.
For organization, I tag the index cards (e.g., “dip” or “combination”), and have more cards describing options, e.g., all the ways I know out of a hammerlock, which started with the addicted2salsa episode.
It is very fast to create each card with a brief sketch and tags, and I can then go back and add a detailed explanation and embed the videos when I have a little more time. I made a script that automates the video transcoding, but you still need to enter in the start time and duration. Since the cards are all linked together, it is easier to go through them than using physical index cards.
I thought that I might put the video excerpts on my iPod, as Marco suggests. Since they show only the move, I think they are a bit more practical than including the full addicted2salsa podcast or a full youtube video. But I’ve actually never tried this.
Wil
Hey sammy do you have an example of the tiddlywiki cards…a link? or jpg of how you set it up
greeneggs
Sure, here is a jpeg:
and here is a pdf printout of all the cards. (It loses some formatting and hides the videos when I print it.)
greeneggs
Sorry, here is the jpeg.
Anthony Persaud
@greeneggs: Great contribution! Awesome way to use PDF functionalities of Embedding video.
lonbluster
I have experienced as well lots of difficulties with remembering patterns, and I was wondering why some other times they come instead very easily in to my mind, without effort of remembering them, or I am even so free that I do something I never studied before, as a fantasy!! (and that’s the best thing!!)
A first answer is the timing! When you listen to the music correctly, and move your body with confidence of the position of each step, everything else come quite naturally and you don’t even bother to do new staff, even if they come as well quite naturally.
I don’t like keep insisting in the effort of trying new staff when my basic step is not relaxed with the partner.
If I see the my partner can’t keep the timing consistently and naturally, I am not inspired at all to do new things, I prefer to enjoy simple movements, smiles, body movements communication…So…second tip… Dance with GOOD dancers!!
Carl
Video. Use cell phone, or a mini camcorder. And tape the combination at the end of class. Most instructors in my area are use to it. Even the advanced warm up lesson at the clubs has everybody recording it.
tommrod
there’s a phenomenon of the human brain function.
don’t remember the name they use. but is this sort of trance like state that comes with mostly all of the next behaviors.
relaxation, concentration, accuracy, enjoyment of the task at hand. it usually happens when we forget about ourselves, and let it happen. i’m pretty sure that most of you people have felt this in many other instances of life (i used to feel it as i played ping pong i was pretty good at it and yes enjoyed it a lot)
so i would rather enjoy what the task at hand is rather than try to show everybody that i’m crazy good at it.as lonbluster posted
“…and move your body with confidence of the position of each step, everything else come quite naturally and you don’t even bother to do new staff, even if they come as well quite naturally…”
seems like what i’m talking about.
tommrod
oh i had forgotten something
1. once you start thinking about what you are doing you will probably break that trance like effect…cool ain’t it? sort of have to let one’s brain work by itself without one’s annoying self interrupting… sorta
2. you have to take on account that you are probably not dancing alone, so how good is it to know and remember that many patterns if you don’t truly know your partner?? i read a girl saying she doesn’t like turns… weird huh!lonbluster
What about learning the lady’s steps, so you will know how she feels when doing those combinations!
Burton
@Sammy:
How are you embedding the youtube videos in tiddlywiki? I’m unable to figure it out, it comes up as just text, not an embed. Thanks!greeneggs
@Burton: You need to install the PlayerPlugin (http://www.TiddlyTools.com/#PlayerPlugin). To install it, you copy-paste the whole card into your tiddlywiki. Then a typical command to embed a youtube video is “<>”. Every player should have a different identity, although it doesn’t matter too much.
greeneggs
Daniel Ellis
Here’s something else to think about. I have heard about several studies that show that the human mind makes very little distinction between what we actually experience, and experiences that we create in our mind. For example, in a study where people were asked to either practice shooting basketball free throws, or to just visualize shooting them, both groups made improvements, and the magnitude of the improvement was only slightly better for the group that actually practiced the shots.
Many Olympic athletes and top performers visualize a perfect performance before they compete. When I was in my early stages, I would just listen to a song and try to visualize myself going through different patterns, and I think it has been one of the most important things in helping me to connect lots of different patterns together on the fly. Try it out and see if it helps you, and let me know how it works.
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jiruiz78
Bachata moderna workshop footage.
Bachata moderna is not only the fusion of various styles into the bachata rhythm and beat. Bachata moderna is based on the crosses steps: cross on 1, cross on 2, cross on 3 and cross over, besides the bachata traditional steps (1,2,3 and hip/tap)
I know some people don’t like bachata moderna because they prefer the traditional style bachata, but this new style is danced together with the bachata traditional.
Bachata moderna is great for dancing urban latin bachatas songs.
Have a look, i hope you guys like it.
SalseroWannaBe
I’m still not a fan of bachata moderna, but looks like I will have to learn it, because more and more people are dancing it, sheeesh
tommrod
i do think that there has to be room for everything. i like the traditional/original/dominican/(whatever you wanna call it) style of bachata better. can’t dance it though i need more practice… after being reborn in r. d. …of course..
what i really like about traditional is that it gives you more room for improv. it challenges you to keeping up with the footwork and the beat… it can’t be teached. just learned. and as in every good learning process the best has to come out from oneself.tommrod
like this dude
tommrod
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Darrien
I have a very salsa/mambo related question. After going to many salsa/mambo workshops and such I’m a little curious about the following:
I understand that the timing is on 2 but why is it that when teachers teach shines/styling it’s taught going forward first and when teachers teach mambo partner work it’s taught going backwards first? I vaguely remember someone saying something to the effect that it helps when you need to go from partner work to shines and back to partner work. I hope this is clear enough for you guys to understand and thanks in advance!
hooknc
So, after a (very) little research it seems as though shines for on2 are taught going forward so everyone can be on the same beat (leads and follows) when learning.
HOWEVER, it seems as though it is the leads responsibility to translate the shine into partner dancing.
A few years ago someone explained why shines were done forward, but I can’t remember their reason.
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Marco
I have a secret santa that wants to gift me Salsa DVD’s. Any suggestions?
hooknc
What type of salsa are you into?
The videos from Eric Freeman are pretty good. He actually just released a new set of videos that he seems pretty happy with.
http://www.salsaville.com/If you’re into rueda/casino then the Salsa Lover series is the best to go with. However, it was quite difficult to get my dvd’s from them and I haven’t been the only one that ran into that problem with Salsa Lovers.
http://www.salsalovers.com/default.aspxSomeone else is going to have to chime in with on2 videos…
Marco
On 1 is the salsa that my wife and I learned, so I try to keep it there for now.
The circular flow of casino/rueda/cuban style really intrigues me. But I’m operating off the KISS principle for now.
Thanks for chiming in.
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Anthony Persaud
I hope something like this never happens to salsa songs: http://is.gd/b62F . I may need a cochlear implant after listening to this.
Marco
If you didn’t watch it to the end, the last twenty seconds are fairly priceless.
SalseroWannaBe
Anthony. I don’t want tell this, but I must – check your video about finding songs using iPhone. It already happened, and you’re an author
Anthony Persaud
@SalseroWannaBe: Very funny… let me find the delete button for that video…
SalseroWannaBe
Don’t worry. I have downloaded it to hard rive, and I will repost it for youtube, recuted, until the world ends
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Chris
Can anyone tell me Salsa Classes in Bangalore
hooknc
Next Page »
hasen_a 4:53 am on January 1, 2009Permalink |
I am just a beginner, but the topic interests me as well. I wouldn’t exactly go as far as trying to synchronize every step/move with each instrument accordingly. I feel that the whole salsa rhythm given by the music ensemble should accomplish this.
The clave can be taken as an instrument which keeps the time like a clock. Did you ever take lessons where you try to distinctively hear out each salsa instrument?
I had a student teacher which made us clap the main beat instruments and that really helped me hear the beat. First I thought this to be stupid but now I sort of thanked him for it.
gnss 5:26 am on January 1, 2009Permalink |
Sorry @ salilsurendran – I’m too much of a beginner to answer your question about the clave but my dancing experience (many years of ballroom) gave me my opinion about this “quick-quick-slow” rhythm. In ballroom you have this or similar rhythms quite often an I learned that ballroom teachers use it too to “explain” salsa – it seems to make it more clear for these students – but also is wrong in my opinion.
As you said it should look like “quick-quick-quick-hold” that is what I’m dancing and I think every salsa dancer on this planet (hope I’m not wrong with this one). The thing about “quick-quick-slow” is, that it indicates 1: Step (change your weight), 2: Step (change your weight), 3 Step (settle your weight between your feet that you stand on both of them in the same way), 4 (bring your weight to the foot of step 3).
I haven’t thought earlier about how difficult it would be to write this down instead of showing it, but I hope this got clear.
In an small excourse I want to try showing this by telling you about (ballroom) Rumba – as a matter of fact this given counting rhythm is right there (quick-quick-slow). The whole dance, for everyone never heard about rumba, is in its steps very similar to salsa – as much as cha-cha is. The way I explained how steps would work in this rhythm is quite what you do while dancing rumba, its just a little more emphazized (when doing your 3rd step, the foot on position 2 is staying streched till you break out to the front or back with it again).
So I wanted to do this all clear to you but now I’m a little ashamed because I don’t know if anyone could follow my words.
If not I’m very sorry – but I want to give you this youtube link to show rumba not just in words (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyvPYntKUrQ) hope this explains the rest – I think since you seem very interested in musicality you should get it by watching.
donv69 10:00 am on January 1, 2009Permalink |
The quick-quick-slow doesn’t have as much to do with the steps as it does with the movement of the body. Remember that the lead’s role is to present the follower the ability to express herself with styling.
So during that slow step (so to speak) the follower takes that extra beat to express herself.
So while your feet do step-step-step-pause, the rest of your body does quick-quick-slow.
Don’t worry about it so much now, it will come after some practice and you’ll understand.
gnss 11:26 am on January 1, 2009Permalink |
So I know about giving the follower the time to express herself – in this case this called rhythm has something right – the weird thing is noone tells you “quick-quick-slow when you are more advanced… this is more for beginners in my opinion – and no beginner that I know gives any room for expression.
lonbluster 12:17 pm on January 1, 2009Permalink |
Yes, indeed, quick quick slow is something for beginners, to ease your mind.
Actually I see it as quick-hold=slow. Actually when you dance freely you don’t really see the hold, except in some moments, like, before a cross body lead.
In an article, I had read that Salsa on2 is more slow-quick-slow, while on1 is instead quick-quick-slow
I have 2 NY style(on2) teachers: one teaches to count 123-567, the other teaches 234-678…but the dance style is the same: Salsa On2!! When you dance properly you can’t count, you have to hear the music, and relax, and enjoy!!
About the clave, I have to say that in most of the songs it is not actually played, but it is just the basis of the song arrangement, so that if you are deeply immersed in the song you will eventually use it to keep your timing on track!!
This is more clear on the On2 style where you have the 2 consecutive steps 2-3 or 6-7(break forward or backward-step in place) matching the 2 of the 2-3 or 3-2 clave.
Sometimes the Clave is for me the only real reference and dancing solo I can actually step on the exactly clave beats, adding a recovery step to match 6 against 5 beats!!
See this article: it will tell you to do whatever you want!!No rules:
http://www.salsaville.com/dancing_behind_the_beat.htm
donv69 2:33 pm on January 1, 2009Permalink |
It’s one of those cases of too much information for the beginner to process. I had the same problem when I started. The only way to make the connection is by practicing a lot.
Don’t worry about it so much. This is one of those things where just knowing it in your head isn’t enough. The other part of the learning process is done subconsciously when you actually dance to the music in clubs, etc.
DanAshley 4:08 pm on January 1, 2009Permalink |
Salisuredran wrote:
“Salsa is said to be a quick-quick-slow dance.”
Said to be quick-quick-slow? Have you heard a professional instructor say this? I’ve seen it on internet blogs, but that is not what is taught at the studio where I take lessons in Chicago.
I admit I have heard it from one instructor. There was a nightclub called “The Buzz” in Chicago with a very popular instructor who gave a free lesson once a week. She was from New Jersey, and never said “quick quick slow”, but she left in summer 2008 and went to another nightclub, so they got a replacement. Now, the replacement did teach using the quick-quick-slow metaphor. But his crowds were thin, and The Buzz shut down. I think he lasted about 5 months before the place closed its doors in December 2008.
Personally, although I admit I have heard the salsa rhythm being described as quick-quick-slow, I’ve heard it only rarely.
Most of my dancing is on 1, and so far I’ve heard it described two ways:
and ONE, TWO, THREE
and FIVE, SIX, SEVEN
or
One, two, three, pause
five, six, seven, pause.
So . . . I agree with you, salilsuredran, quick quick slow is not a particularly helpful way to describe the dance rhythm.
lonbluster 7:32 pm on January 1, 2009Permalink |
Yeah…I agree…don’t bother with quick-quick-slow!!
Dance and Smile instead!
Happy new Year!!
gnss 7:56 am on January 2, 2009Permalink |
Hehe – in a way that is what I think about it too – JUST HAVE FUN WITH THE DANCE, THE MUSIC AND EVERYTHING ELSE AND DON’T CARE.
But I got in this discussion because as Ionbluster said it “this is for beginners to find a place to start” – in my opinion, giving someone the opertunity to get started is really a good idea.
But the problem is where I hear this all the time, no one dances salsa – and after this explanation they hate this dance. On the other hand some of this crowd who had the chance to learn a little from myself actually fell in love with salsa in a way.
And for me it is very important that someone who has not the slightest clue what salsa is, falls in love with it like I did – its the best thing happend to me in my life so I want to share this.
Salil 8:29 am on January 2, 2009Permalink |
I am sorry to say this but I am facing this problem on almost any salsa forum that i post a question to. There is a long list of answers and most of them don’t answer to the point. I am not trying to insult people who are trying to help me. I am very grateful to all of you but I notice this trend where I read a long list of answers and find the answer to my question either unanswered or no clear answer. I am still not clear about the quick-quick-slow question. I think most of you are saying it should be quick-quick-quick-hold. Though a lot of instructors do teach you to do the quick-quick-slow where the slow step is replacing your left foot and then changing weight on 3rd and 4th beat. The question that has remained unanswered is the 2nd and 3rd beat of the 2-side of the clave. I find the 2nd slap of the clave to be too fast as compared to the other slaps. Is it really on the 3rd beat or is it on 2.5 or 2.75…. The reason being I find it hard to do the 2nd step and then be on time for the 3 because the clave slaps so quickly. but i have no trouble on the 3-side of the clave which is 5 – 6.5 – 8
donv69 9:32 am on January 2, 2009Permalink |
@Salil: I think you are thinking way too much. Like I have previously said before, this is one of those questions where there is no technical answer, you just need to dance it and feel it.
lonbluster 10:43 am on January 2, 2009Permalink |
I don’t see why you mind so much about the Clave! It is just a reference, but you don’t necessarily have to step on it!
You sayd that at least 1 step matches the clave, which is your 2, in-place step for the On1 Salsa style.
That’s enough mate! Having noticed your feet(2 or 6) step all the time(every 2 measures) on that hit that’s what make you sure you are on time!! Nothing more is needed. The rest of the clave is all upper-body movements!
See: above 2-3 clave, below 3-2 clave
..x| x x x x x|…
..8|1 2 3 4| 5 6 7 8|1..
…|x x x x x |x..
You have other references also to take care about. To be perfect on time you should be checking both the Clave and the 1234-5678 steps, as cross reference.
Dancing on2 there is another reference, which is most important for me, and that is the “chachacha”, happening between each measure.
Anyway, all of these have to be matched unconsciously, as I told you, you can’t keep checking them all the time while you dance on a nightclub, you will get crazy!!
Cheers
lonbluster 10:45 am on January 2, 2009Permalink |
I don’t see why you mind so much about the Clave! It is just a reference, but you don’t necessarily have to step on it!
You sayd that at least 1 step matches the clave, which is your 2, in-place step for the On1 Salsa style.
That’s enough mate! Having noticed your feet(2 or 6) step all the time(every 2 measures) on that hit that’s what make you sure you are on time!! Nothing more is needed. The rest of the clave is all upper-body movements!
See: above 2-3 clave, below 3-2 clave
..x|__x_x____x__x__x|…
..8|1 2 3 4| 5 6 7 8|1..
…|x__x__x____x_x__|x..
You have other references also to take care about. To be perfect on time you should be checking both the Clave and the 1234-5678 steps, as cross reference.
Dancing on2 there is another reference, which is most important for me, and that is the “chachacha”, happening between each measure.
Anyway, all of these have to be matched unconsciously, as I told you, you can’t keep checking them all the time while you dance on a nightclub, you will get crazy!!
Cheers
lonbluster 10:47 am on January 2, 2009Permalink |
sorry…I was trying to do a proper scheme, but the formatting won’t allow it…
donv69 4:26 pm on January 2, 2009Permalink |
When I first got my rhythm, I was stepping on the cowbells. 1-3 5-7. So easy for songs that had cowbells.
Now I picked up on something else when dancing and have no clue what it is. But I am always on time. But when the cowbells kick in, I notice that I step a big before the cowbell; which is fine.
I have no clue what I’m stepping on and I don’t worry about it. I am just happy that I can do crazy moves now and impress the girls.
Next…Styling. Make the girls melt.
hooknc 9:24 pm on January 5, 2009Permalink |
Quick Quick Slow is used to slow the transition down from the 3 to the 5.
In a lot of cases when I’ve been teaching people will skip/miss the rest on the 4.
Saying quick quick sloooow will get the people thinking “Hey, I need to wait just a second here…”
You could also say “one, two, three, rest, five” or “one, two, three, four, etc…”
But all the above is a mouth full when you’re trying to count out the beat for beginners when the music is playing.
I prefer teaching with “one, two, three, , four, five, six” or “forward, two, three, back, six, seven”.
Quick, quick, slow is just a different wording for counting out the beat, emphasizing the fact that we take a rest on the 4 and 8.
TD 12:45 am on January 6, 2009Permalink |
The slow is because it consumes 2 beats 3rd and 4th. Whereas the quick-quick are 1 and 2.
That is why we count 1-2-3 , 5-6-7. the 4 and 8 are merged into 3 and 7 respectively.
Otherwise your can count 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4. Or 1-2-3-tap, 1-2-3-tap. Try and you will appreciate the slow then – gives you a break
gnss 6:45 am on January 6, 2009Permalink |
I think what the “slow” means and what it stands for in counts was clear to anyone of us.
We can conclude that this kind of “counting” is made for beginners to have a clearer feeling about the break – and ofcourse helping someone to learn how it works is good at all time.
dahvee 2:44 pm on January 6, 2009Permalink |
@Salil:
Maybe this will help.
http://scphillips.com/dance/salsarhythm.html