Hello Friends,
One of my beginner friends asked me a question that I had no answer to and I was dumb struck as to why i hadn’t had the same question all this time. Salsa is said to be a quick-quick-slow dance. But how is it quick-quick-slow when we step or change weight on every beat. For eg. we step(beat 1)-change weight(beat 2)-replace step(beat 3)-hold(beat 4). so where does the quick-quick-slow come in. it should be quick-quick-quick-hold. I practise to some pure clave tunes in which the only instrument playing is the clave. on the 2 side the clave strikes on the 2nd and 3rd beats. I find it very difficult to complete the 3rd step on the 2nd slap of the clave even if I am on time for the 1st slap of the clave. Because the 3rd step is supposed to be slow and the 2nd slap of the clave happens very fast after the 1st. Is my dancing fundamentals or knowledge of clave wrong in some way?
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Do I understand the clave correctly?
salilsurendran
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hasen_a 4:53 am on January 1, 2009 Permalink |
I am just a beginner, but the topic interests me as well. I wouldn’t exactly go as far as trying to synchronize every step/move with each instrument accordingly. I feel that the whole salsa rhythm given by the music ensemble should accomplish this.
The clave can be taken as an instrument which keeps the time like a clock. Did you ever take lessons where you try to distinctively hear out each salsa instrument?
I had a student teacher which made us clap the main beat instruments and that really helped me hear the beat. First I thought this to be stupid but now I sort of thanked him for it.
gnss 5:26 am on January 1, 2009 Permalink |
Sorry @ salilsurendran – I’m too much of a beginner to answer your question about the clave but my dancing experience (many years of ballroom) gave me my opinion about this “quick-quick-slow” rhythm. In ballroom you have this or similar rhythms quite often an I learned that ballroom teachers use it too to “explain” salsa – it seems to make it more clear for these students – but also is wrong in my opinion.
As you said it should look like “quick-quick-quick-hold” that is what I’m dancing and I think every salsa dancer on this planet (hope I’m not wrong with this one). The thing about “quick-quick-slow” is, that it indicates 1: Step (change your weight), 2: Step (change your weight), 3 Step (settle your weight between your feet that you stand on both of them in the same way), 4 (bring your weight to the foot of step 3).
I haven’t thought earlier about how difficult it would be to write this down instead of showing it, but I hope this got clear.
In an small excourse I want to try showing this by telling you about (ballroom) Rumba – as a matter of fact this given counting rhythm is right there (quick-quick-slow). The whole dance, for everyone never heard about rumba, is in its steps very similar to salsa – as much as cha-cha is. The way I explained how steps would work in this rhythm is quite what you do while dancing rumba, its just a little more emphazized (when doing your 3rd step, the foot on position 2 is staying streched till you break out to the front or back with it again).
So I wanted to do this all clear to you but now I’m a little ashamed because I don’t know if anyone could follow my words.
If not I’m very sorry – but I want to give you this youtube link to show rumba not just in words (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyvPYntKUrQ) hope this explains the rest – I think since you seem very interested in musicality you should get it by watching.
donv69 10:00 am on January 1, 2009 Permalink |
The quick-quick-slow doesn’t have as much to do with the steps as it does with the movement of the body. Remember that the lead’s role is to present the follower the ability to express herself with styling.
So during that slow step (so to speak) the follower takes that extra beat to express herself.
So while your feet do step-step-step-pause, the rest of your body does quick-quick-slow.
Don’t worry about it so much now, it will come after some practice and you’ll understand.
gnss 11:26 am on January 1, 2009 Permalink |
So I know about giving the follower the time to express herself – in this case this called rhythm has something right – the weird thing is noone tells you “quick-quick-slow when you are more advanced… this is more for beginners in my opinion – and no beginner that I know gives any room for expression.
lonbluster 12:17 pm on January 1, 2009 Permalink |
Yes, indeed, quick quick slow is something for beginners, to ease your mind.
Actually I see it as quick-hold=slow. Actually when you dance freely you don’t really see the hold, except in some moments, like, before a cross body lead.
In an article, I had read that Salsa on2 is more slow-quick-slow, while on1 is instead quick-quick-slow
I have 2 NY style(on2) teachers: one teaches to count 123-567, the other teaches 234-678…but the dance style is the same: Salsa On2!! When you dance properly you can’t count, you have to hear the music, and relax, and enjoy!!
About the clave, I have to say that in most of the songs it is not actually played, but it is just the basis of the song arrangement, so that if you are deeply immersed in the song you will eventually use it to keep your timing on track!!
This is more clear on the On2 style where you have the 2 consecutive steps 2-3 or 6-7(break forward or backward-step in place) matching the 2 of the 2-3 or 3-2 clave.
Sometimes the Clave is for me the only real reference and dancing solo I can actually step on the exactly clave beats, adding a recovery step to match 6 against 5 beats!!
See this article: it will tell you to do whatever you want!!No rules:
http://www.salsaville.com/dancing_behind_the_beat.htm
donv69 2:33 pm on January 1, 2009 Permalink |
It’s one of those cases of too much information for the beginner to process. I had the same problem when I started. The only way to make the connection is by practicing a lot.
Don’t worry about it so much. This is one of those things where just knowing it in your head isn’t enough. The other part of the learning process is done subconsciously when you actually dance to the music in clubs, etc.
DanAshley 4:08 pm on January 1, 2009 Permalink |
Salisuredran wrote:
“Salsa is said to be a quick-quick-slow dance.”
Said to be quick-quick-slow? Have you heard a professional instructor say this? I’ve seen it on internet blogs, but that is not what is taught at the studio where I take lessons in Chicago.
I admit I have heard it from one instructor. There was a nightclub called “The Buzz” in Chicago with a very popular instructor who gave a free lesson once a week. She was from New Jersey, and never said “quick quick slow”, but she left in summer 2008 and went to another nightclub, so they got a replacement. Now, the replacement did teach using the quick-quick-slow metaphor. But his crowds were thin, and The Buzz shut down. I think he lasted about 5 months before the place closed its doors in December 2008.
Personally, although I admit I have heard the salsa rhythm being described as quick-quick-slow, I’ve heard it only rarely.
Most of my dancing is on 1, and so far I’ve heard it described two ways:
and ONE, TWO, THREE
and FIVE, SIX, SEVEN
or
One, two, three, pause
five, six, seven, pause.
So . . . I agree with you, salilsuredran, quick quick slow is not a particularly helpful way to describe the dance rhythm.
lonbluster 7:32 pm on January 1, 2009 Permalink |
Yeah…I agree…don’t bother with quick-quick-slow!!
Dance and Smile instead!
Happy new Year!!
gnss 7:56 am on January 2, 2009 Permalink |
Hehe – in a way that is what I think about it too – JUST HAVE FUN WITH THE DANCE, THE MUSIC AND EVERYTHING ELSE AND DON’T CARE.
But I got in this discussion because as Ionbluster said it “this is for beginners to find a place to start” – in my opinion, giving someone the opertunity to get started is really a good idea.
But the problem is where I hear this all the time, no one dances salsa – and after this explanation they hate this dance. On the other hand some of this crowd who had the chance to learn a little from myself actually fell in love with salsa in a way.
And for me it is very important that someone who has not the slightest clue what salsa is, falls in love with it like I did – its the best thing happend to me in my life so I want to share this.
Salil 8:29 am on January 2, 2009 Permalink |
I am sorry to say this but I am facing this problem on almost any salsa forum that i post a question to. There is a long list of answers and most of them don’t answer to the point. I am not trying to insult people who are trying to help me. I am very grateful to all of you but I notice this trend where I read a long list of answers and find the answer to my question either unanswered or no clear answer. I am still not clear about the quick-quick-slow question. I think most of you are saying it should be quick-quick-quick-hold. Though a lot of instructors do teach you to do the quick-quick-slow where the slow step is replacing your left foot and then changing weight on 3rd and 4th beat. The question that has remained unanswered is the 2nd and 3rd beat of the 2-side of the clave. I find the 2nd slap of the clave to be too fast as compared to the other slaps. Is it really on the 3rd beat or is it on 2.5 or 2.75…. The reason being I find it hard to do the 2nd step and then be on time for the 3 because the clave slaps so quickly. but i have no trouble on the 3-side of the clave which is 5 – 6.5 – 8
donv69 9:32 am on January 2, 2009 Permalink |
@Salil: I think you are thinking way too much. Like I have previously said before, this is one of those questions where there is no technical answer, you just need to dance it and feel it.
lonbluster 10:43 am on January 2, 2009 Permalink |
I don’t see why you mind so much about the Clave! It is just a reference, but you don’t necessarily have to step on it!
You sayd that at least 1 step matches the clave, which is your 2, in-place step for the On1 Salsa style.
That’s enough mate! Having noticed your feet(2 or 6) step all the time(every 2 measures) on that hit that’s what make you sure you are on time!! Nothing more is needed. The rest of the clave is all upper-body movements!
See: above 2-3 clave, below 3-2 clave
..x| x x x x x|…
..8|1 2 3 4| 5 6 7 8|1..
…|x x x x x |x..
You have other references also to take care about. To be perfect on time you should be checking both the Clave and the 1234-5678 steps, as cross reference.
Dancing on2 there is another reference, which is most important for me, and that is the “chachacha”, happening between each measure.
Anyway, all of these have to be matched unconsciously, as I told you, you can’t keep checking them all the time while you dance on a nightclub, you will get crazy!!
Cheers
lonbluster 10:45 am on January 2, 2009 Permalink |
I don’t see why you mind so much about the Clave! It is just a reference, but you don’t necessarily have to step on it!
You sayd that at least 1 step matches the clave, which is your 2, in-place step for the On1 Salsa style.
That’s enough mate! Having noticed your feet(2 or 6) step all the time(every 2 measures) on that hit that’s what make you sure you are on time!! Nothing more is needed. The rest of the clave is all upper-body movements!
See: above 2-3 clave, below 3-2 clave
..x|__x_x____x__x__x|…
..8|1 2 3 4| 5 6 7 8|1..
…|x__x__x____x_x__|x..
You have other references also to take care about. To be perfect on time you should be checking both the Clave and the 1234-5678 steps, as cross reference.
Dancing on2 there is another reference, which is most important for me, and that is the “chachacha”, happening between each measure.
Anyway, all of these have to be matched unconsciously, as I told you, you can’t keep checking them all the time while you dance on a nightclub, you will get crazy!!
Cheers
lonbluster 10:47 am on January 2, 2009 Permalink |
sorry…I was trying to do a proper scheme, but the formatting won’t allow it…
donv69 4:26 pm on January 2, 2009 Permalink |
When I first got my rhythm, I was stepping on the cowbells. 1-3 5-7. So easy for songs that had cowbells.
Now I picked up on something else when dancing and have no clue what it is. But I am always on time. But when the cowbells kick in, I notice that I step a big before the cowbell; which is fine.
I have no clue what I’m stepping on and I don’t worry about it. I am just happy that I can do crazy moves now and impress the girls.
Next…Styling. Make the girls melt.
hooknc 9:24 pm on January 5, 2009 Permalink |
Quick Quick Slow is used to slow the transition down from the 3 to the 5.
In a lot of cases when I’ve been teaching people will skip/miss the rest on the 4.
Saying quick quick sloooow will get the people thinking “Hey, I need to wait just a second here…”
You could also say “one, two, three, rest, five” or “one, two, three, four, etc…”
But all the above is a mouth full when you’re trying to count out the beat for beginners when the music is playing.
I prefer teaching with “one, two, three, , four, five, six” or “forward, two, three, back, six, seven”.
Quick, quick, slow is just a different wording for counting out the beat, emphasizing the fact that we take a rest on the 4 and 8.
TD 12:45 am on January 6, 2009 Permalink |
The slow is because it consumes 2 beats 3rd and 4th. Whereas the quick-quick are 1 and 2.
That is why we count 1-2-3 , 5-6-7. the 4 and 8 are merged into 3 and 7 respectively.
Otherwise your can count 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4. Or 1-2-3-tap, 1-2-3-tap. Try and you will appreciate the slow then – gives you a break
gnss 6:45 am on January 6, 2009 Permalink |
I think what the “slow” means and what it stands for in counts was clear to anyone of us.
We can conclude that this kind of “counting” is made for beginners to have a clearer feeling about the break – and ofcourse helping someone to learn how it works is good at all time.
dahvee 2:44 pm on January 6, 2009 Permalink |
@Salil:
Maybe this will help.
http://scphillips.com/dance/salsarhythm.html